Cult FAQ

Disclaimer: The below information contains many generalisations and may not apply to any particular cult.

Self refuting statements

Self-refuting statements are also called self-defeating statements. They are statements that implicitly deny their own truthfulness. From the logic side of things, it's a little like shooting oneself in the foot. One of the most commonly used is variations of "There are no absolutes" - which is an absolute statement. It's easier to see when it's rephrased "There are absolutely no absolutes" because it's clear that it contradicts itself.

One topical example of this phrase, Obi Wan Kenobi in Revenge of the Sith (Star Wars Episode III) claimed "Only a Sith deals in absolutes." Because this is an absolute statement and we know that Jedi don't lie, either Obi Wan (or rather George Lucas or his ghost writer) is an idiot who has used a self-refuting statement, or Obi Wan is a Sith. (Ha! Bet you didn't know that about him. Just kidding.)

Another commonly used self-refuting statement used in relation to religions is "Truth is relative." Again, it's an absolute statement which in order to mean anything must be true. But if truth isn't absolute the statement isn't true.

Self refuting statements don't need to be refuted, as such, since they do that themselves. However, they should be pointed out. Here's a few examples of how, using questions to hopefully help get the person who made the self refuting statement thinking.

Closely related to many of these self-refuting statments is the Law of non-contradiction, which basically says something cannot be both true and false at the same time and in the same sense.

Statement	Response(s)
Truth is relative. (This is known as relativism.)	Is that statement only relatively true?
There is no truth. We can't know truth.	Is that true?
There is no absolute truth.	- Is that absolutely true? - Are you absolutely sure about that?
"Words aren't absolutes" - Rob Bell.	- Are those words absolute? - Is the meaning of those words absolute?
"The objective certainty that people crave doesn't exist outside of God." - JH by email, defending Rob Bell.	Is what you just said objectively certain?
"No human being, Pope, housewife, scientist, graduate or web-master can say beyond a doubt what is true without assuming divine infallibility." - JH by email, defending Rob Bell.	- Is what you just said true? - Are you divine?
"Science has absolutely proved that truth is relative" - paraphrase of DP by email.	Is that truth also relative?
All truth depends on your perspective.	- Is that statement true? - Does that truth depend on your perspective?
"We must all find out our own truth" - Nanda McLean in a letter to NZ Herald.	- Is that true for me or just for you? - Are you telling me my truth instead of letting me find out my own truth? - What happens if my truth contradicts your truth?
"Reality is in your experience" - SW by email.	- Is that really true or did it just become true when I experienced it? - If I had never experienced you saying that would it never be true? - Did you exist before I experienced you saying that?
"Math is a question of fact, and religion is a question of faith" - BZ by email.	Do you just believe that in faith or is that a fact?
That’s just your interpretation. That's just your view.	Is that true or is it just your interpretation? It is just your view that it's just my view?
All religions are true. (This is known as pluralism.)	Am I wrong if I disagree with you?
You can't claim your religion is the only true one.	Is that a true religious statement itself?
It's wrong to say others are wrong.	- So what you just said is wrong? - Are you wrong in saying that?
"No one is wrong or broken" - NLP basic tenet.	- So if I say that's wrong I can't be wrong in saying that? - If someone disagrees with that are they wrong?
We can't really know anything [about religion]. (This is known as "hard-boiled" agnosticism.)	Do you know that?
You can’t know anything for certain.	Are you certain about that?
All generalisations are false.	Are you just generalising?
"All people or groups that claim to have absolute truth are liars" - paraphrase of Rob Bell's teachings.	Is that an absolute truth, and therefore a lie?
"There are exceptions to every rule!" - SS, Subud member, by email.	- Is that a rule that's always right? - Is that a rule that has an exception too? - What are the exceptions to that rule?
"The mind has no capacity to tell truth from falsehood" - David R Hawkins.	- Did your mind have the capacity to tell that that statement is true? - Does my mind have the capacity to tell that that statement is true?
Reasoning is unreasonable. "Reasoning confuses you" - Joyce Meyer. "The more you try to reason the more confused you'll get" - Joyce Meyer.	- What??? - Are you trying to confuse me by saying nonsensical statements? - What's your reason for that? - That reasoning sounds unreasonable to me. - How much reasoning did you do to come up with that? - Doesn't that mean that your statement is either confused or you didn't think before speaking? - You sound confused. What's the reason for you being confused? - Speak for yourself!
We create our own reality. "... people[']s reality is whatever they believe it to be" - RW by email.	- Did I just create you saying that or did you? - When you said that did we create the same reality at the same time? - Do you believe my reality changed when you believed you said that?
We can't make any decisions.	- When/how did you decide that? - When/how did you come to believe that? [A more subtle approach.]
Everything is an illusion. "All matter is an illusion" - PJ by email.	- Is that statement true or just an illusion? - Who said that? - Did an illusion just make a real statement? - If pain is an illusion tell me why it is that when I sit on a pin and it punctures my skin, I dislike what I fancy I feel? - Go jump in front of a speeding truck, then. [Perhaps not an acceptable reply, but it does show the statement is not a livable one.]
We don't exist. Matter doesn't exist. "Science now knows there is really no matter as such" - PJ by email.	- Who said that? - If that's the case then what just said that? - Did an immaterial person just make a material statement? - If you're immaterial does it matter what you espouse? - If matter doesn't matter you should try stepping in front of a bus and see if the bus's matter matters. [Perhaps not an acceptable reply, but it does show the statement is not a livable one.]
"Nothing exists except matter" - example by philospher Mary Midgley.	Does that statement have any meaning (ie, outside of the matter it exists as)?
You can't trust your senses.	Should I trust what my ears are hearing/eyes are reading when you ask that?
My viewpoint is solidly grounded in personal experience. "I've got my feet firmly planted on this illusion" - Cindy Williams.	How can subjective evidence/illusion provide a solid foundation?
I'm skeptical of everything.	Including your own skepticism?
Language is meaningless. "Words have become meaningless in our society" - Rodney Howard-Browne.	Is that sentence meaningless? Did those words you just used mean something?
"All opinions are vanities" - David R Hawkins.	Was that opinion just a vanity? Was that just your opinion?
"Therefore, it is clear that there cannot be a theory or a spiritual teaching in Subud" - Subud web page. "Subud is neither a teaching nor a religion, but an experience awakened by the power of God leading to a spiritual reality free from the influence of ... thinking" - Subud web page.	Isn't that a spiritual teaching? Isn't that a teaching? Were you under the influence of thinking when you wrote that? Did you have to think to come up with that or to tell it to me?

Feel free to suggest others - see the Contact page.